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We ordered a single sample page of the polyester OL775LP labels to try on plastic #5 deodorant sticks and the sample stickers printed beautifully in our laser printer and stuck nicely our deodorant sticks. After ordering 100 of these labels, the purchased labels after about 8-12 hours started to automatically unstick / unpeel themselves on the right and left edges of the deodorant stick where there is very slight curvature. This stick is the standard oval deodorant stick everyone uses and sees in the stores, so the curvature is hardly much at all. You had us pay for shipping to ship the labels back which was almost half the original cost of the labels themselves and you graciously shipped us some new labels. These labels still have the same problem. After about 8-12 hours they start to automatically just unpeel/unstick themselves from the container on the right and left edges.
Our question is, is it typical for your polyester labels to start to unpeel themselves and not stick well to plastic? We were led to believe that the polyester had the strongest adhesive of all your labels, but these labels just keep automatically unpeeling / unsticking themselves after applying them to the container. We carefully wipe off every container with rubbing alcohol. We very carefully make sure we don't touch the back of the sticker on the edges where we see the peeling off problem. The labels themselves are beautiful and they are easy to print on. We just cannot figure out how to actually make them stick. Are these labels not intended for plastic or not intended for curved surfaces? Do they only work on perfectly flat surfaces?
Has anyone else had problems with the polyester labels unsticking themselves and unpeeling themselves on the edges?
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 Rank: Label King Posts: 769  Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Labeling certain plastic surfaces can be challenging especially if the label doesn't lay flat on the surface. Adhesives react differently depending on the components in the plastic (recycled content, etc.). It is strange that the sample sheet worked, but the most recent orders do not stick. I am not sure what would cause that unless it is something environmental or different between how the sample labels were applied vs. how the most recent orders were applied. At this point, I think it would be best to look at alternate label material options. Our most aggressive adhesive can be found on our Aggressive White Matte material (material code AT). It sticks very well to a variety of surfaces and may work better on your container. The AT material is a paper based material, but there may be options to make it more water resistant such as spraying it with a clear coat spray such as Krylon Preserve It. See article below: http://www.onlinelabels.com/howto/how-to-give-your-labels-an-extra-layer-of-protection-label-overcoat-spray.htmYou can request samples at the link below. http://www.onlinelabels.com/General/SamplesSelectItems.aspxI am happy to work with our customer service team to get them to pick up the non-performing product from you so we can credit you and work with you to find something that is going to perform well. Please contact us through the form below with details on your order (and please reference this forum post) so I can make sure that you get credited in full. https://secure.onlinelabels.com/Support/SupportRequest.aspxThanks. Dave C.
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the reply. Our environment has not changed (except the outside temps are now a little cooler as winter has arrived, however inside temps are the same). Also, on this new batch we did try wiping everything down with rubbing alcohol, when previously we never did this. Was that our mistake? I guess our main concern is the OL775LP labels. After re-reading, I realized I was not very clear in my initial post. The OL840LP labels (the more expensive custom size) we ordered previously have worked perfectly on the same plastic material. They stick and it is very difficult to get them off. It is the OL775LP Lot# 996337-41023011 labels that are giving us the problem. The OL840LP labels on plastic #5 do not unstick themselves and are great which is why we assumed the OL775LP polyester labels would be as well. Are there any techniques or additional adhesives we need to apply to make the OL775LP labels work as well as the OL840LP custom size labels or do custom size labels just have a stronger adhesive or is something just not quite right with our OL775LP labels?
Thanks!
chris
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
I did some quick research on the items that you purchased. I can confirm that the OL840LP and the OL775LP were both manufactured in a similar time frame using the same raw material. If there are differences in performance then it is likely not related to the actual adhesive. It is more than likely related to the way in which the label wraps on the surface. The OL840LP (7" x 1.25") and OL775LP (2.675" x 2") are completely different in size so it wouldn't surprise me that they perform differently on the surface.
I can also confirm that the 2nd batch of OL775LP that you were sent were from another lot which means that it was the same raw material, but a different batch so it is not likely a case of a bad batch of raw material on the original and redo shipment.
In some cases, a label will peel off / butterfly due to the how tightly it is stretched across the surface (surface tension). I can't comment on the impact that alcohol would have the ability of the label to bond to the surface of your container. We often make that recommendation when we feel that the label is not getting a good bond due to the surface not being clean. I would recommend that you try applying the label without cleaning the surface if that worked before.
If you are committed to the white polyester material (LP) then I can only make a few recommendations that may improve the results. Is there a possibility that you can change to a larger label size or something that can wrap back onto itself? A label normally performs much better when it wraps back onto itself rather than onto the container/bottle. When you apply the label try to apply it with less surface tension. Apply the label in the middle and then lightly apply down the left side and then the right side. This may help to reduce the surface tension when you apply the label.
I do think the best option would be to try a different material or try changing the label size. Let us know how you would like to proceed. We are happy to continue trying different options, until we are able to find a recommendation or product that will work well for your purposes.
Thanks.
Dave C.
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Hi Dave,
We are applying the different size labels to different container shapes/sizes, but the containers are made of the same polypropylene plastic. We do not stretch the labels when applying. We have been very careful to follow all the recommended methods for application by stick the center of the label on first and gently applying out towards each edge.
We are only committed to a label material that is able to get wet. We were led to believe the weatherproof polyester was the best white label material for that so that was the only label material we sampled. Maybe we should have ordered more than a single sample sheet of the OL775LP the first time around, but the initial sample worked so well we didn't think anything about this material ever having any issues and eagerly purchased several different and even custom styles not realizing we would have trouble with this material just coming off on its own around the edges on jars that have only a minimal curvature.
I will request a sample of several laser material types to see how well they each perform against each other in water, in a dry environment, and to compare if any of the materials have a more permanent adhesive that works on plastic.
Thanks again for all your tips and ideas!
chris
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Rank: New User
Posts: 2 Location: colorado
I have been a customer of Online Labels for over 8 years and have never had any problems with labels unpeeling from PET and HDPE labels bottles....UNTIL NOW. I called someone earlier this week and they said they hadn't heard of any problems with this happening. however, the post here indicates otherwise. the labels i am using are ol175wi weatherproof gloss inkjet. i have a delivery to make today of over 200 bottles and may have to short them and glue the minimum amount of labels on to get them started for the holiday weekend. i have had lots of experience with these labels and with this batch the first thing i noticed was that the backing was peeling off VERY easily compared to every previous label sheet i had purchase - EVER....i was thrilled as it made my job much easier. however, the end result was they didn't stay on the bottles. after speaking to your representative, i did the alcohol thing and after 1 day they started peeling...on both types of bottles. i will be giving you a call shortly to discuss a solution. denise
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Swiontek - I wish we had a better resolution to the issue. Unfortunately, I can't say definitively why the product that you tried from a sample sheet worked and the most recent order did not. The adhesive should be consistent from lot to lot. As I mentioned before, there are a number of things outside of our control that can cause variation. Many of these things are environmental so we have little control over it. The environment at the time the product was labeled and how the labels are stored can definitely have an impact on performance (humidity, air temperature, etc.). Sometimes, the age of the material can also make an impact. Both the recent shipments were new made from recently produced raw material so I don't think that is playing into the issue.
We do not put the adhesive on the raw material / stock that we use to make the products that we sell. It comes to us like that from our raw material suppliers therefore we have little control over the strength of the adhesive. I can say that our raw material suppliers have extremely rigid quality control within their facilities too and do a very good job of keeping consistency from lot to lot. All processes do allow for some variation, but it is typically not enough to make a product perform in one instance and then not perform in the next instance.
Thanks for your understanding. As I mentioned before, we are happy to continue working with you until we help find a resolution to the issues that you are experiencing. I think that investigating some of our other material options may be the best choice for now.
Thanks.
Dave C.
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Hi Denise,
May I ask what type of glue you are using to glue the labels to your bottles? Does it appear to be working?
Dave,
According to Denise your labels used to very work well in the past. Have you changed suppliers for your raw material or have they recently changed adhesives?
Thanks!
chris
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
dw390@smartbynature.biz - I did some quick research into your account. The issues that you are experiencing would be unrelated to swiontek's issue. The weatherproof glossy inkjet material (product code WI) does not use the same adhesive as the weatherproof laser material (product code LP) that swiontek mentions in his post. In fact, these products use different adhesives and come from 2 completely different raw material suppliers.
We will need to get some additional information in regards to what you are labeling in order to get a better understanding of your specific situation. In regards to the WI (weatherproof glossy inkjet) product, we did have a raw material supplier change between the time that you placed an order in 2013 and your most recent order in 2014. I looked into your account and checked the lots on the product that was shipped to you, and I was able to confirm that there were some slight changes to that product. If you are noticing a performance difference between the product purchased in 2013 vs. 2014 it may be related to this change.
When we make a raw material supplier change, it is normally because we can no longer get a product, a raw material supplier has forced a change on us, or we are looking to enhance the performance of a product. In the case of the glossy weatherproof inkjet product, we made the change due to the fact that we needed to enhance the performance of the product. We have found the change that we made at the end of 2013 has significantly reduced the customer issues / performance issues that we had related to that product. This change was tested rigorously on our end before it was made. I may be able to get some insights from our R&D person who did the testing to find out what type of differences he found in adhesive performance.
I'm sure our customer service team will be happy to work with you to find an amicable resolution to the issue. Let me know if you would like me have somebody contact you today.
Dave C.
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Rank: New User
Posts: 1 Location: Panama City
We have been using the OL25LP labels for several years with good result, but have had problems over the last year. We had gotten a batch in which the sheets stuck together, and we now have a batch in which the label don't stick very well.
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Trish - We made some changes to white weatherproof polyester laser material in 2013 to help with curling issues. Prior to the changes that we made in 2013, we were having a lot of curling issues. We worked with our raw material suppliers to develop a product that was much less likely to curl. In making that change, we had to make some changes to the liner / backing. In some cases that new liner / backing change would cause the adhesive to sometimes come through the die cuts on the face sheet. This issue would sometimes cause the sheets to stick together. We were able to correct that issue by making some modifications to our production process. We think that issue is now under control so you shouldn't see that happening unless our press operators are not following our trained production process In regards to less adhesive or lower tack on your most recent batch - I haven't heard of this issue. That would be something that our customer service team can research and get you replacement product if we are able to find evidence of the issue. Please contact our customer service team at https://secure.onlinelabels.com/Support/SupportRequest.aspx and let them know the issue that you experiencing. They should be able to work with you to investigate the issue and offer some recommendations / solutions. Thanks. Dave C.
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Rank: New User
Posts: 2 Location: colorado
The glue I used was just craft glue....but I needed to make sure it covered all the way to the corners to keep any unglued portions from coming off. So, no it really didn't work. I spoke to customer service this morning and they are sending a new set of labels and I'll return what I have for them to research. My situation can be a controlled test because I have not changed the bottles, contents or labels used for about 4 years. I had been using the weatherproof matte labels prior to switching to the gloss. I'll do a test with these and see if this makes a difference. Do these come from the same supplier? Weatherproof Matte Inkjet and Weatherproof Gloss Inkjet?
D
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
dw390@smartbynature.biz - The matte weatherproof inkjet material (product code WJ) raw material was changed in 2013. As of today, both the matte weatherproof inkjet material (product code WJ) and the gloss weatherproof inkjet material (product code WI) come from the same raw material supplier. They are both formulated with the same permanent adhesive. Even though the adhesive on the matte weatherproof inkjet material and the gloss weatherproof inkjet material are the same, they may perform different based on the fact that that the face sheet is different.
I can confirm that some additional sheets were sent out to you today of the gloss weatherproof inkjet material (product code WI). I see that our customer service manager handled the transaction so I assume he is trying to rule out an adhesive issue. They are from a different production lot than the last order that you received, but I would suspect that they will perform the same as the labels that were sent to you a few weeks ago. Keep us updated.
Thanks.
Dave C.
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Hi Dave,
So, we just received the requested samples (#145117) of white polyester OL775LP, silver polyester OL775SP, clear gloss OL775CL, and white gloss OL775WS, and silver foil OL775SF.
Of the samples, the silver polyester and the clear gloss labels were the absolute best in sticking and staying on permanently and being difficult to peal off. The clear gloss however did not work well with our color laser as the printed text and images were fuzzy and not as crisp and clear as with other materials. Any idea what the difference is between the silver polyester and white polyester? The silver has a far superior adhesive and is very difficult to peal off!
The white gloss and silver foil were comparable and both adhered well, however the silver did not work well with out color laser and the colors bled and discolored. Both however did not peal off on their own which is good. They of course had issues when coming into contact with water which is expected of paper labels.
The thing that is really confusing us now is the latest sample of white polyester labels adhered significantly better than the batch of 100 labels that we purchased. While the batch we purchased would start to curl and peal off by themselves within 8 hours or so this latest sample did not have that problem. After 24 hours they did show a very slight tendency on a corner or two, but they definitely were not curling off like the purchased batch.
We are not sure how to proceed from here. The silver polyester are absolutely amazing and our absolute favorite for durability and permanent sticking ability however we cannot use silver labels which makes us sad since they are such amazing labels!! Is it safe to assume the composition and adhesives of the silver polyester are completely different and just make it an all around superior label compared to the white polyester? Or do the white and silver polyester just come from totally different manufacturers? Our guess is the white polyester just have a weaker adhesive and also a tendency / problem with wanting to curl outwards and the adhesive is not strong enough to overcome the labels curling tendencies.
The white glossy labels appear to adhere better than the white polyester, but they of course are still not as good as the silver polyester in sticking power or ability to get wet which is obvious as they are paper based.
We really wish the white polyester were as good as the silver polyester or clear gloss! We've considered a totally different label shape/size, but since so many of the label materials work fine we know this shape should work just fine, it is just the white polyester labels have issues while the silver polyester do not. Any thoughts or recommendations?
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
The silver polyester labels come from a different raw material manufacturer so that is why the adhesive performs different from the white polyester. Unfortunately, we don't have control over the adhesive unless we go to our raw material supplier and require a change to the adhesive properties of the material. We don't often do this as changing products often has unintended consequences (what is good for one customer is often bad for another). When we do make a change we go through a rigid testing process on our end to ensure sure that a product will be an overall improvement. If a new product makes it through that testing process on our end it is then sent to a sampling of customers who have used the existing product. Those customers will then provide feedback to us on how the new product performs for them. This entire process can take weeks to months to complete. We have a meeting set up with the raw material supplier who manufacturers the white laser polyester. We plan to discuss the adhesive characteristics and see if anything can be done to make the adhesive stronger. I am not sure why you would see a variance in performance between any 2 lots of material. There are pretty tight controls when these products are made. Subtle differences in environment or application procedure can definitely cause changes in performance when it comes to how something sticks on a certain substrate. The age of the product can also contribute to differences to performances. I think it is best to go down the path of looking at alternative options for you since it is likely a case of an incompatibility between our product and your container. If we are able to make adjustments to the adhesive on the white polyester then we can definitely let you know. As I mentioned, this process could take a few months to play out. In the meantime, would you consider using the gloss labels and then use type of overcoat spray to make them more waterproof? You can see an article below on adding an overcoat spray. http://www.onlinelabels.com/howto/how-to-give-your-labels-an-extra-layer-of-protection-label-overcoaI wish I had a better answer for your situation. Thanks for all the feedback. Dave C.
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Hi Dave, Thank you for taking all the time to help us work through this. We've learned a lot and we are also very confused as to why some of the white polyester labels seem to adhere longer/better than others and will agree it must be due to the weather which is causing them to slowly unpeal / curl off. Just for experimentation purposes we tried the white polyester labels on flat surface of the same material and they seem to work well on flat surfaces. It is when a curved surface is thrown into the mix the adhesive appears to not be strong enough to hold the label on securely. We would be willing to switch to the gloss labels for the time being as those sound like the only option for curved polypropylene plastic at the moment. And please keep us in the loop as you talk with your white polyester manufacturer regarding a stronger adhesive. We would really like to know approximate timelines if they plan to improve their adhesive. We really like the white polyester material the best, we just wish it had a stronger adhesive and performed as well as the silver polyester as those labels are fantastic! How should we proceed from here? We have the batch of OL775LP labels and a batch of OL2083LP. Our plan was to use both labels on the same jar, however with the issues we've had with the OL775LP not sticking, we have not even attempted to use the OL2083LP. I assume we should request to have both batches switched to gloss white? Edited by user Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:55:29 AM(EST)
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
We appreciate all the feedback.
I have forwarded this information to our customer service manager, Steve. He will be contacting you to make arrangements to switch out the white polyester labels for you.
Thanks.
Dave C.
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Rank: New User
Posts: 4
I just wanted to say that I have been using Online labels for years and have never had a problem until I switched over to their 1.8 x 1.8 labels for my lip balms. They will not stick no matter what I do and I am to the point that I may stop selling them as it is so frustrating. I'm not sure why this can't be resolved or at least addressed. If I was selling a faulty product, I would get it fixed. I have 100 sheets of labels for my lip balms that have been nothing but a headache! Customer service claims they aren't sure why they don't stick, try rubbing alcohol.
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Rank: Label King Posts: 769 Location: Sanford Was thanked: 46 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Elegantrose  I just wanted to say that I have been using Online labels for years and have never had a problem until I switched over to their 1.8 x 1.8 labels for my lip balms. They will not stick no matter what I do and I am to the point that I may stop selling them as it is so frustrating. I'm not sure why this can't be resolved or at least addressed. If I was selling a faulty product, I would get it fixed. I have 100 sheets of labels for my lip balms that have been nothing but a headache! Customer service claims they aren't sure why they don't stick, try rubbing alcohol. Elegantrose - I took a quick look at your account and I see that the last time you purchased the 1.8" X 1.8" labels was back in November 2013. We are currently testing some modifications to the adhesive on our white laser polyester product. We would be happy to work with you on the issue that you are experiencing. I may be able to get you samples of the new product we are testing to see if it performs better for you. Can you submit a ticket to us at the link below detailing the adhesive issue that you are having? Please make sure to reference the product code and let us know details about the issue. https://secure.onlinelabels.com/Support/SupportRequest.aspx Thanks. Dave C. OnlineLabels.com
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Rank: New User
Posts: 2 Location: Florida
Hello! I'm new to Online Labels and am having some issues with the sides curling up on my deodorant containers. As previously mentioned, the sides start to curl up within a few hours. I have purchased the Weatherproof Gloss Inkjet OL775WI. And while I LOVE the durability and look of the labels, the curling up ruins it. I know this forum post is a couple of years old, but it seems like the problem still exists. I do understand that the deodorant container is not a flat surface which is why the curling is happening. But I think it's more of an issue with the material it's sticking too. I've also purchased OL394WI (same material, different size) and use those labels on an aluminum bottle, with no issues. The label doesn't wrap over itself and there's no unpeeling happening. It's perfect!
I'm looking into new labeling options on the site, because I can't continue to sell my deodorant with a label that unsticks before it arrives to the customer. I have been exploring the option of a wrap around label, but the size I need is not available as a standard label. The perfect size for me would be a 6" x 2", but that's only available as a special order sheet label, which you can't purchase any less then 100 sheets. That's not cost effective for me as I'm a small business. That's the reason why I haven't gone and purchased custom printed labels with a printing company and why I think your site is a blessing for small businesses like my own. That being said, I could use some help here in figuring out what other options are available.
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